Bag of Bell (Vol. 5): How Michigan stacks up against Ohio State, my top 5 greatest U-M coaches, how I feel about life in Texas and how I'd value one football title vs. two hoops titles
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This week’s mailbag is the longest yet, so let’s jump right in:
Email question from Tim Cronyn:
Compare and contrast the entire scopes of influence of the university of Michigan and the ohio state university.
Athletics
Academics
Alumni
Contribution to society
This exercise is long overdue. So let’s start with it.
I put together this head-to-head listing of Michigan vs. Michigan State on Twitter a couple weeks ago and it gained a lot of traction. I’ve been asked to do something similar to Michigan-Ohio State, but hadn’t gotten around to it. Now seems like a good excuse to do just that.
Here’s the Michigan-Michigan State one:
Here’s the Michigan-Ohio State one using the same methodology:
This chart definitely isn’t all Maize and Blue like the Michigan State version. If you watched any football games over the past decade, that probably doesn’t come as a shock to you.
We live in a society where the vast majority of people in America watch news channels based on their political affiliation. They just want to be fed the news they want to hear that will reaffirm their beliefs. Similarly, people will likely interpret the above chart in the way that best fits the narrative they’re looking for.
Michigan slappies will say that Michigan still has a 9-8 lead over Ohio State in the table. But they’ll probably gloss over the fact that the majority of sports that are mainstream and bring in the most attention/revenue are the ones that are shaded scarlet and gray.
Miserable Michigan fans will emphasize that latter point and say that only football matters. They’ll either fail to recognize or refuse to acknowledge that three of the four and five of the seven longest active streaks belong to Michigan, and will discount success is all other sports.
Like with almost everything these days, neither extreme is right and the truth is obviously somewhere in the middle.
Here’s a breakdown of the four criteria you requested:
Athletics
The most important sport in college athletics is football. Ohio State has a better program that Michigan by all objective measures. Head-to-head, recent overall success, recent conference titles, recent national titles, present outlook, future outlook (recruiting, etc). If you’re arguing differently, you’re in denial. Ohio State is enjoying it’s longest consistent run of excellence in the modern era. It sucks to see on a number of levels, maybe most of all, the feeling of helplessness it can give to Michigan fans.
Since Jim Harbaugh has arrived, the Wolverines have been a top-10 football program. But Michigan can’t get over the Ohio State hump and until it can, all truly impressive accolades are on hold.
If you’re a football-or-bust fan, then this is an easy decision. Ohio State has the advantage.
The question isn’t just about football, though. It’s about athletics in general.
The above chart gives Michigan a 9-8 advantage in what appears to be a close battle. But a closer look shows it might not be as close as it appears on the table.
Only two of Ohio State’s active win streaks are longer than two games. Seven of Michigan’s nine are longer than that mark. The two sports where Ohio State has long active streaks in — football and men’s tennis — are clear “wins” for Ohio State. Though it should be noted that Michigan has pretty solid programs in each. Both Michigan and Ohio State made the Final Four of the indoor national tennis championships in February. And both Michigan and Ohio State are top-10 football programs.
A deeper dive at the other six sports that are shaded scarlet and gray in my chart shows Ohio State not only isn’t dominant in those, Michigan is probably the stronger program in more than half of them.
Softball isn’t even up for discussion. Yes, Ohio State upset Michigan in the last head-to-head matchup between the two. But that’s literally the only measure between the two where Ohio State holds the edge. Michigan has 21 conference titles since 1992. Ohio State has two. Michigan has made 25 straight NCAA tournaments. Ohio State has made four — the longest such streak in school history.
The gap in baseball isn’t as large as softball, but this is another case of Ohio State just having the most recent head-to-head edge and that’s about it. Michigan not only made the College World Series last year, it made the national championship game. Ohio State’s last CWS appearance was more than 50 years ago. Michigan has twice the national titles (2), CWS appearances (8), regional titles (2) and conference titles (35) than Ohio State (1, 4, 0 and 15, respectively).
In hockey this year, Michigan and Ohio State were technically named co-champions, along with Minnesota and Penn State, because of the coronavirus. Beyond that, though, Ohio State has never won a Big Ten title. Both programs share the same most recent Frozen Four appearance (2018). Ohio State has one other lifetime appearance (1998). Michigan has … 24. Starting to notice a trend?
And then we have men’s hoops. Michigan has the most recent Big Ten regular season title, Big Ten conference tournament title, the four most recent Sweet 16 appearances, the two most recent Elite 8 appearances, the two most recent Final Four appearances, the two most recent national title game appearances and the most recent national championship.
So like I said: Ohio State has the edge in football, the most popular sport. That’s indisputable.
But Michigan has the edge in men’s hoops, baseball, softball, hockey — four of the next five most popular sports — and about 10 others, for a clear overall advantage.
Advantage: Michigan
Academics
No need to waste too much time with this section.
Michigan is ranked as the better school by any quasi-reputable ranking system.
Its average alumni starting salary ($63.7k) is considerably higher than Ohio State's ($55k), it's acceptance rate (23%) is twice as selective as Ohio State's (52%), its graduation rate (79%) is significantly higher than Ohio State's (59%), Michigan falls under the "most selective" category by US News and World Report while Ohio State is in the "more selective," Michigan has a 15:1 student-faculty ratio while Ohio State has a 19:1 (56.8% of Michigan's classes are with 20 or fewer students -- Ohio State has 26.6% of its classes fall in that category).
The more I think about it, this could actually be a really long section. But I’ll take the high road and cut this off now.
Advantage: Michigan
Alumni
I wouldn’t want to put a damper on this scientific examination and turn this into a subjective exercise, so I’m going to let each school speak for itself when it comes to the alumni that best represent their institution of higher learning.
A look at the "distinguished alumni" page on Ohio State's official website lists a little more than 60 different notable Buckeye grads.
The list includes two live actors/actresses: Patricia Heaton — the mom in Everybody Loves Raymond and The Middle — and Gigi Rice — who, according to IMDB, is best known for playing Vivica in A Night at the Roxbury. Not quite Madonna or James Earl Jones. But who am I to judge?
Other heavy hitters being touted by the university on its official site include:
Paul Ecke Jr., prominent poinsettia grower
Daniel Amstutz, former head of the International Wheat Council
Fred Machetanz, artist who is considered the dean of Alaskan painters
Clark Kellogg, CBS Sports
Quite a Mount Rushmore.
I don’t dare start listing names from Michigan’s own list of notable alumni from its official site because I’ll undoubtedly leave out a number of Noble Prize winners unless I commit to making this a 20,000-word newsletter. Instead, I’ll just try and name a few, but under the very real caveat that this is just a small sampling.
Michigan has former president Gerald Ford. Ohio State has congressman Jim Jordan (don't google him).
Michigan has the entire crew of Apollo 15 and founders/CEOs/presidents of Google, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, JetBlue, Borders, Twitter, Hallmark, Craigslist, H&R Block, Boeing, Bacardi, Thorn Apple Valley Inc., Redbox, Groupon, Comerica, Domino's, Five Guys, General Electric, Orbitz, Pillsbury, Walgreen's and Allstate, among others. But, to be fair, Michigan does not appear to have any prominent poinsettia growers, heads of International Wheat Councils or men considered to be the dean of Alaskan painters.
There is one Ohio State grad I can 100% get behind: Harlan Hatcher. So congratulations are in order for that one. But based on the overall body of work here, this one’s a first-round KO in Michigan’s favor.
Advantage: Michigan
Contribution to society
No matter how good you may think A Night At The Roxbury was, I think the last 1,000 or so words made this a pretty easy call.
Advantage: Michigan
Twitter question from Matches Malone:
I suppose this is more of a discovery than a self-discovery, but my biggest takeaway from quarantine is just how underappreciated stay-at-home moms, childcare workers and teachers are. People that say “taking care of young children is a full-time job.” Ha, no. It’s not a full-time job. It’s like three full-time jobs. On steroids.
My kids are actually pretty well-behaved, but this past month or so has been quite eye-opening in terms of just how much goes into the day when you’re staying at home with children — not even factoring in the part about needing to be working while at home, too.
So I guess in tandem with that above caveat, if this needs to be about self-discovery, then my biggest self-discovery would be that I’m incredibly impatient when it comes to children and that people who dedicate their lives and careers toward keeping these young human beings alive and molding them into participating members of society should be canonized.
Oh, and I’m kind of a dick. But I had already come to terms with that prior to the quarantine.
DM question from Brent Potts:
Scott, pretend Michigan needed to hire one person to coach all of its sports teams for the next 5 years. That person has to have coached at Michigan during your adult life. Who would you choose?
This is a really good question. I think Carol Hutchins is the best Michigan coach currently on campus. But I don’t think she’d be my choice for this specific hypothetical question.
The easy answer would be to choose Jim Harbaugh, because the athletic department is about 90% funded by football, so you should have the person most familiar with that team be in charge of the most important team on campus. And the only head coaches the football team has had during my adult life have been Harbaugh, Brady Hoke and Rich Rodriguez — so there’s no much debate there.
A couple other options:
Erik Bakich
This is more of a leader-of-men choice than a choice that really makes sense from an Xs and Os or financial standpoint, but I can’t understate just how impressed I was with Bakich during last year’s College World Series run. That obviously includes on-field stuff, but it also refers to things like the interview below.
How can someone watch that and not want to run through a wall for that guy? A great representation of the school, and someone I’d trust with the responsibility offered in this hypothetical scenario.
John Beilein
You can’t laud another coach as being a leader of men and not also follow it up with a Beilein mention. His legacy may have taken a bit of a ding with his failure in Cleveland (with an extra ding for SlugGate2020), but nobody can dispute how many great coaching performances he had in his decade-plus in Ann Arbor.
Red Berenson
If you’ve ever been on the receiving end of a Red Berenson stare, you know how impactful of a motivational tactic that fear can be.
Final verdict, though, would be Harbaugh — an answer I’m sure will be received well by the very rational members of our fanbase.
Twitter question(s) from All things Maize and Blue and Jeff Boot:
These are both basically the same question, so I’ll put them together.
No need to bury the lede: I love it here. No winters. No state income tax. Very reasonable cost of living relative to other major metro areas. And Dallas really is about as unTexas as it comes, outside of Austin. When I got the opportunity to come down here and help lead the Dallas Morning News sports section, that was my biggest concern: Am I ready to live in Texas? But there are very few run-ins with horses. I’m very rarely challenged to duels while out in public. And the last time I was lasso’d was a good 3-4 years ago.
In all seriousness, if anyone reading is considering moving down here, feel free to shoot me an e-mail and I can help with more detailed advice when it comes to which part of the Metroplex to live in and any other specific questions you may have. It gets two thumbs up from me.
Twitter question from Brad Ritt:
One football title. And I don’t really think it’s that tough of a decision.
I think there’s a couple reasons for the lack of hesitation.
First, Michigan fans have enjoyed a ton of top-tier success in college basketball. Over the past eight years, there’s not a team in America that has more NCAA Tournament wins than Michigan. The Wolverines are one of the few teams that have gotten to play for multiple national titles over that span. Now obviously it would have been great to actually win one of those games, but Michigan has essentially made a deep run every other year for the better part of a decade. That hasn’t been the case for Michigan football.
While still comfortably the second best team in the Big Ten and one of the top 10 programs in the nation since Jim Harbaugh joined on in 2015, Michigan has had a tough time getting out of the good-but-not-great tier really ever since its national title in 1997. So it may be an absence makes the heart grow fonder thing, but I think a football national title would be more meaningful, more appreciated and be more transformative for the football program than a couple hoops titles would be.
Second, I really don’t think the general public grasps just how hard it is for a school from the north to win a football national championship.
Here’s a map I saw floating around on Twitter last week:
Obviously Michigan won its national title in 1997, so the 1998 cut off wasn’t exactly an arbitrary one for the point the guy is trying to make. But it’s still hard to argue with the facts. Outside of Ohio State’s two titles in 2002 and 2014 — that school’s lone two titles in the past 50 years — every other non-vacated national title in the past 22 years have been from schools in the South. That’s insane.
From a rivalry standpoint, it would be great to knock Ohio State down from its perch as the class of the North. But rivalry notwithstanding, it’s really important to start shifting the narrative (and more importantly: the reality) that college football is a southern-dominated sport and Big Ten schools aren’t legitimate foes for the crown.
Twitter question from Wolverine Corner (and it’s not about Isaiah Livers!):
Mr. Corner is correct — this one is up my ally. I’ve been the golf editor at the Dallas Morning News since Spieth broke onto the scene early last decade. And since he’s a Dallas product and still lives in Dallas, a huge chunk of our golf coverage is more like “Jordan Spieth coverage.”
As for the specifics of the question: I don’t know when. But I do feel good betting on him returning to form sooner rather than later. And that’s not a proclamation I’d make for many golfers that are in a rut that has lasted as long as Spieth’s has.
By the time golf returns from its hiatus, it’s likely that Spieth will be in the midst of a three-year winless streak, with his dramatic 2017 British Open title still being his most recent win. I think his track record prior to this dry spell shows just how special of a player he can be.
Even with his last nine major appearances factored in there (all non-wins, obviously), the guy has still played in just 28 career majors. He has three wins, eight top 3s, nine top 5s, 10 top 10s and 15 top 20s. He’s 26. He’s super bright. Dedicated to the craft. And he’s got a good head on his shoulders. Writing him off seems very premature. Especially since he was still very competitive in a few of those major appearances during this current dry spell (his third-place showing in the 2018 Masters highlighted maybe the best Sunday round in the history of the tournament and he carded another third-place finish in last year’s PGA Championship).
Now what needs to change for him to get back? If there was an easy answer to that, I imagine he would have already made that change. But I will say I’d expect him to make a swing coach change before making a caddie change. That’s nothing against Cameron McCormick — a coach with a strong track record and deep ties to Spieth going back to when Jordan was just 12 years old — but it’s more a compliment to Spieth’s caddie Michael Greller and the relationship they have. Yes, like any other player-caddie relationship, Spieth and Greller have had a few tense moments caught on camera. But having walked 18 inside the ropes with these two on more than a handful of occasions, it’s clear that these two grind out rounds harder than basically another other player-caddie tandem on tour. And if you’ve listened to Spieth after any win, he’s always referring to “us” instead of “me” when talking about his successes. I don’t think that’s just lip service. He really considers it a team effort and Greller is the first person he’d name when talking about important members of Team Spieth.
Since this answer wouldn’t be complete without a #take: I’ll go on the record saying Spieth gets a PGA Tour win in 2020 and adds major No. 4 been the end of 2021.
Twitter question from One Lucky Papa:
I could have this go five-deep strictly from football. But I’m going to do my best to have this be at least somewhat representative of the entire student body. The honorable mention list alone would be enough to fill a Mount Rushmore for about 95% of FBS schools nationwide, though. Michigan has had some powerhouse coaches.
Bo Schembechler: Bo spent 21 years as a head coach in Ann Arbor. In those 21 years, he walked away with THIRTEEN conference titles, including 10 trips to Pasadena. Michigan finished as a top-10 team in 16 of Schembechler's 21 seasons at the helm. You won't see sustained excellence like that from one coach at the college football level ever again. The lack of a national title is a bummer, but more from a personal level than in a way that actually hurts his legacy. Bo is an institution. I’m honored to have gotten to meet him, and I really can’t think of a scenario where another coach would ever knock him off the perch as the face of U-M athletics.
Carol Hutchins: I got to cover some really fun, interesting and unique coaches during my time covering Michigan athletics. Hutch incapsulates all three of those adjectives. Like I mentioned earlier in this newsletter, I think she’s the best and most decorated active coach. And she does it her way. She has her own gruff demeanor, but manages to do it in an endearing way. It’s clear everyone loves playing for her and would do anything for her. I was fortunate enough to cover her national title run in 2005. Like Bo, I don’t think a lot of a national title would have hurt her legacy, but I’m glad she has that additional notch on her belt. It goes along well with her 21(!) conference championships and her 17 Big Ten Coach of the Year honors.
Red Berenson: I worry about being swayed by recency bias, having the third straight coach I choose at the top be someone I’ve gotten to cover/interview. But then I take a look at the accolades: Two national titles, 11 Frozen Four appearances, 11 conference titles, 22 consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances. How can I not include Red Berenson?
Fielding Yost: Time to go back to the football well. This is a choice between Fielding Yost and Fritz Crisler. Both accomplished a ton in their respective eras, and both continued to make contributions at Michigan after their coaching careers as ADs. I’m giving the nod to Yost because he did it first, and it’s easier to argue that there couldn’t be a Crisler if there wasn’t first a Yost. Since I wasn’t around 100 years ago to witness things myself, I’ll go ahead and take Grantland Rice’s word on this one: “No other man has ever given as much heart, soul, brains, and tongue to the game he loved.”
Bennie Oosterbaan: Even though he wasn’t one of the five most successful coaches in the history of the school, Oosterbaan is that generation’s version of the Most Interesting Man In The World, so he gets my last spot. He was a football head coach for 11 seasons and basketball head coach for 8 others. That uniqueness in itself is probably grounds for inclusion. Even though his record as a basketball coach was nothing special (he had winning seasons in five of eight seasons, but never flirted with a conference title), his football credentials are special. He won a national championship in 1948 and was the head coach of three straight conference champions, with the 1950 squad winning a Rose Bowl.
Oosterbaan was the first coach ever named to the Michigan Athletic Hall of Honor, and even though that inclusion was largely driven by his accolades as a player, I feel the same way with this exercise. If I have an opportunity to put Oosterbaan on any sort of “best ever” list without any historical constraints, I’m doing just that.
Honorable mention: Fritz Crisler, Ray Fisher, Cliff Keen, Harry Kipke, Newt Loken, Branch Rickey, Bev Plocki, Vic Heyliger.
Twitter question from Yost Built:
I’m not really a big memorabilia guy, but I do have a couple things that are meaningful to me.
My favorite Michigan piece is easy for me, though it’s a heavy lean on sentimentality and not on actual value. It’s a signed Drew Henson jersey. I got it from the first-ever Michigan game I attended (shoutout to Ben Briggs and his dad for Ben’s 14th birthday present — the three of us attending the Michigan-Notre Dame season opener in 1999). I was a 13-year-old wide-eyed, bushy-tailed Michigan fanatic whose only interaction with the program was watching games on TV. I wore a Michigan No. 7 jersey to that game (a great game, by the way — Michigan beat Notre Dame by four in a season-opening battle between a pair of top-20 teams). After the game, Ben’s dad was able to get the three of us to go on the field and run around in the end zone. The field was still grass at that point, so we took our little mementos from there, got our pictures taken and pretended like we were playing on the actual field. A ton of great memories for a couple 13-year-old kids.
But it got even cooler when we were leaving the stadium an hour-plus after the game, and we just happened to run into Drew Henson on Main St. while he was leaving. I was in luck wearing his jersey, obviously, and we both got autographs and photos with him. That’s still hanging up somewhere at my parents’ house back in Michigan.
As for non-Michigan stuff, it would probably be work-related stuff. Maybe press credentials from some of the big events I’ve been to? I’ve been fortunate to get to be at a Super Bowl, multiple Stanley Cup Finals games, an NBA Finals game, multiple World Series games, a NCAA title game in football, basketball (x2), hockey (x2) and softball, and some other cool CFP games and bowl games. So anything that commemorates attending those games is up there.
E-mail question from Derek Rotter:
Hi Scott,
Not sure if you've ever done one of those "$15 to make a starting 5" things for Michigan Basketball, but I saw one from MSU Twitter and thought I'd put it together.
The one I made was specifically the teams from 2010-11 to 2019-20. I had to do a little juggling around with some players (Livers as a 4, Stu Douglass as a 1, etc.). Would love to hear what your line up would be, or if you would change anything around in how I put it together.
Personally, I would go with Trey, MAAR, Duncan, Franz, Teske.
PG:
$5- Trey Burke
$4- Zavier Simpson
$3- Derick Walton Jr
$2- Darius Morris
$1- Stu Douglass
SG:
$5- Tim Hardaway Jr.
$4- Caris Levert
$3- Nik Stauskas
$2- MAAR
$1- Jordan Poole
SF:
$5- Glenn Robinson III
$4- Charles Matthews
$3- Duncan Robinson
$2- Iggy Brazdeikis
$1- Zack Novak
PF:
$5- Mitch McGary
$4- Isaiah Livers
$3- Franz Wagner
$2- Brandon Johns
$1- Jon Horford
C:
$5- Moe Wagner
$4- DJ Wilson
$3- Jordan Morgan
$2- Jon Teske
$1- Austin Davis
I think you have to pay the premium and get Burke for $5. He won the Naismith, Wooden, Oscar Robertson and NABC POY awards. So you simply can't leave him out.
Since you're paying a premium for Burke, though, you have to start looking for discounts elsewhere. You need to average $3/player.
Iggy Brazdeikis is the glaring bargain bin guy to me at $2 for SF. He was Big Ten Freshman of the Year and an honorable mention All-American in his one season in Ann Arbor. He also gives you positional flexibility.
With that out of the way, you've got $8 to spend at three positions: SG, PF and C. I need to think of who the best players are at that position and which ones make the most financial sense. The five best remaining players at those three positions: THJ, Caris, Stauskas, McGary and Moe. Four of those five are $4 or higher, and I can't afford that, so I will gladly snatch Nik Stauskas at $3. He's a former Big Ten Player of the Year, so $3 seems like an absolute steal at that pricing.
That leaves me five bucks to grab a power forward and center. I'd love to get DJ Wilson or Jordan Morgan on my roster as the center for their defense and multi-faceted games, but I think the drop off from Franz Wagner to Brandon Johns and Jon Horford is pretty significant at PF, especially with the upside remaining with Franz, so my two picks would be Franz Wagner ($3) and Jon Teske ($2). Wouldn't love where I was at with Teske at my 5, but I think it's important to have a stretch 5 in my lineup and I don't think Davis would have the stamina to be a starting caliber center.
To recap, that makes the lineup: Trey, Stauskas, Iggy, Franz, Teske. That captures Michigan's two most decorated individual players of the past decade (Burke and Stauskas) and gives me a ton of offensive firepower from guys that can score in a number of different ways. A little light on defense, but I think having Franz as a lockdown guy is helpful.
Twitter question from Robert Cleary:
You tell me, champ.
See you all next week.